The Union

[PeeKnuckle]

Yeah. Like, I lost my job because of pot. Did you, or was it you were really already on a destructive path and you just happened to be smoking pot when it happened? Pot as a lifestyle could get you fired; if you constantly wore pot leafs on your clothes, and you came in smelling like it. If you're treating your workplace with respect and partake on your own time... there shouldn't be any issue whatsoever. Drug testing can get you fired, but for all the wrong reasons. Pot shouldn't be illegal, and what we do in our own homes is our own business. There are no studies that say recreational pot users who only smoke at home, bring danger to the work environment. So, why are we testing for it? Cha-Ching!

Since I've started watching Rogan, I've picked up on some really interesting things from either him, or his podcast guests. One of his guests got me fascinated by Logical Fallacies, and I've been trying to understand more about them ever since. Once you start to pick up on some of them, it really broadens your own understanding of what is being said to you, instead of what was intended to be said to you. As humans, we're alarmingly deceptive in the ways we communicate with each other. Some of the indirect reasons for this are really fascinating as well. It runs the gamut from ego to being subconsciously self loathing or self conscious of a trait or pattern that person dislikes (or even fears) of themselves.

[eminutia]

I don't smoke pot because I know what it will do to me. That doesn't mean I am going to become a police officer and arrest everyone who smokes pot. That just means I know what it can do to people like me. Weak minded, strong willed individuals who aren't in tune with their own processes, if you will.

Most people I meet, are in check and know what's right and wrong for THEM, not for other people. That's why some of them smoke pot, I guess. Maybe it does something different for them that it did for me. I never smoked pot because of what it did to me, I just smoked pot because I was bored and it gave me something to feel differently.

Oh, and about the level of human communication... that's a whole other topic I could get really speculative about, but I'm not going to right now.

[PeeKnuckle]

Right on. Definitely don't do it if it's not something you enjoy, or if it makes you feel uncomfortable. Thanks for sharing your experience with it, too. I believe all sides need to be shared, especially if someone who has never tried it, is thinking about it. It's best to know all you can.

How do you feel about its other uses, Em? The medical aspect or even the goods made from the parts that don't get you high. For instance, the seed. It can be made into foods, and contains high amounts of nutrients. Which is why many call it "the most nutritionally complete food source in the world". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp#Nutrition

[Timber King]

Plain and simple, marijuana is illegal because of money. If there were a way to make more money with marijuana/hemp/all other iterations of cannibis as a legal substance, it would be legal. The government will try to regulate and tax it (like cigarettes and alcohol). I can only imagine how much they would tax it (cigarettes go for around $10 a pack in New York for example). The only real argument against legalization is that it harms others (not just the user), but then again alcohol is legal and more crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol than under the influence of marijuana. I believe as a society we shouldn't glorify the use of marijuana if it were legalized (alcohol shouldn't be glorified either, for instance, they won't sell alcohol at college football games BUT they will take alcohol sponsors for television!) but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

This is a bit off the path, but I believe that certain unwritten "social norms" are increasingly becoming law, and wrongfully so. For instance, I think cigarette companies should be able to pay for advertisements in children's magazines. My point is that even though they are legally able to do so, the magazine should have the fortitude to not allow a cigarette company to run advertisements in a magazine geared towards children. Furthermore, assuming a children's magazine decided to run advertisements by cigarette companies, parents and guardians of children should then make the choice to not endorse or purchase a magazine that their children read that endorse such products. People should be making these choices, not the government. Right now, for example, they're trying to pass a "Caylee's Law" in Pennsylvania in response to the Casey Anthony trial in which it is a felony if a parent does not report their child missing within so many days. Although I appreciate the reasoning for the want for such a law, it just isn't a good law (I could go on about why it isn't a good idea but that could be a 50 page dissertation). So, bringing this full circle, just because we don't want people smoking weed or glorifying its use as a recreational drug, this doesn't mean we should make it law and send thousands upon thousand of people to prison because of a plant!

[PeeKnuckle]

Agreed. This should be a personal choice, and not the governments. It's asinine that we allow anyone to legislate a plant. It's just like DMT. It naturally occurs in our own brains, but it's illegal. In essence, we're all drug mules and breaking the law. It's also found in vegetation and various other things. When did we start policing mother nature? It makes no sense. What does make sense, is one tiny fraction of this great country, is making billions upon billions of dollars in doing so.

Can I ask for some clarification in something you said, TK? "The only real argument against legalization is that it harms others (not just the user)". I can think of a couple ways, but want to make sure if that's what you meant. Mine were people operating vehicles/machinery and possibly even second hand smoke.

[Timber King]

Can I ask for some clarification in something you said, TK? "The only real argument against legalization is that it harms others (not just the user)". I can think of a couple ways, but want to make sure if that's what you meant. Mine were people operating vehicles/machinery and possibly even second hand smoke.

I was alluding to the victimless crime theory where a person is doing something illegal that does not affect others (unlike the harm principle). So, I would say a lot of people would argue that the use of marijuana (intrinsically) does not harm anyone to the extent where it should be illegal, but of course, as you pointed out, there are those sort of incidents so there should be an emphasis on responsible usage.

[CHINESE BABOON]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZqYV9KKOZQ

[PeeKnuckle]

^Love Hicks. TOOL did, too. =D

@TK Agreed again. Thanks for clarifying. There are some independent studies going on right now, to see what the risks are for smoking marijuana (cancer wise). It's always been assumed that it naturally could cause cancer, but a preliminary study showed there was no elevated risk. Unlike tobacco, which is agreed across the board that it does in fact cause cancer. I still take the preliminary study with a grain of salt and am anxiously awaiting the more detailed analysis of the bigger studies. I'd also like to say that you can smoke marijuana with a vaporizer. A much cleaner form of smoking it directly. You're not getting the superheated plant matter into your lungs. The vaporizer does all the work, and you just need to transfer it into your lungs. There's even ways to 'flavor' it, so the patients who don't like the taste of cannabis, can still use it.

[eminutia]

How do you feel about its other uses, Em? The medical aspect or even the goods made from the parts that don't get you high. For instance, the seed. It can be made into foods, and contains high amounts of nutrients. Which is why many call it "the most nutritionally complete food source in the world". http://en.wikipedia..../Hemp#Nutrition

I think it's other uses are fantastic. I actually have a wallet made out of a bit of hemp. I also have a pair of shoes made from it. Hell, I'd even smoke it if it didn't send me off on a 3 day bender every time!

[PeeKnuckle]

I've owned a hemp belt since I was 21. My dad got it for me in Guatemala. It looks as new as it did back then. The color has faded a tiny bit, but its strength and integrity is still all there.

Let me ask you this, Em. If it were legal, prevalent and socially acceptable, would it still make you go on a bender? I ask, because it could be a subconscious thing. You're doing one illegal drug, let's go try more. No one drinks a Coke and feels the urge to do heroin. Caffeine is a legal drug and very socially acceptable. Same with tobacco and alcohol. I will admit that drinking alcohol, though, can lead you into other destructive behavior.... but I think it's because you start off in destructive behavior by drinking first.

Also not saying you're wrong. I want to be clear on that. I'm enjoying all of these discussions very much. I am very intrigued and want as many varying accounts, experiences and apprehensions as possible. This shouldn't be a taboo subject. We should be able to talk about this without fear. I'm hoping by us doing that, we're softening the negative stigma it has and people start to feel more comfortable.

So yeah. Thanks everyone for chiming in, and for watching the documentary. I do appreciate it.

[MWB]

**** clinton. Our last two presidents at least had the buds to admit to it....and worse.

[PeeKnuckle]

Any politician admitting to pot use, is a hypocrite and shouldn't be in office. If 88% of marijuana convictions are for simple possession, and that is forever on their permanent record... then it's BS and should apply across the board. They can put a big fat green M on my clothes. I don't care. It helps me in ways no other can. I will not use pain pills, and I will not use sleeping pills. There is an all natural medicine that can grow almost anywhere, and Big Medicine doesn't deserve any of my money.

Also, what message are we getting from these politicians? They've used the big bad weed and they made it all the way into major league politics. Gee golly, it can't be that bad now, can it!?

[eminutia]

PK, you seem to have found a use for it that is separate from getting a buzz and acting stupid. That's great, and it is respectable, if there is a positive change in your life from it. Unfortunately for me, the positive change only lasts about 2 hours, and after that it's either get more or get something else. That's how addict thinking works. It's not enough that we have something to have fun with, we need to have fun as long as possible, not thinking about the consequences.

Weed can also be a social lifter. If you're the only one not smoking weed at a party, you're obviously going to be a target of shame. Some people can handle the shame, and others give into peer pressure. I was one of those kids who gave into peer pressure, and I had fun with it for years and years, eventually I found myself using harder drugs, not knowing what it was doing to me, as well as others because I would steal to get more. I am not an anti-pot person, I am simply a person who has been negatively affected by the constant stream of availability of these drugs, including pot. So I smoked a bit of pot, and I didn't care about doing the harder stuff because I was already smoking a little pot. Does that make sense?

I am very lucky to have survived drug abuse in one piece. It started with pot. That wasn't the cause though. It ran much deeper than that, and I'm still trying to figure it out. I suggest people figure out their situation and be conscious of their surroundings before they blindly start a drug that could have the potential for destruction.

[PeeKnuckle]

I was once addicted to cocaine. I had two roommates who dealt it, so it was always around and it was mostly free. I was the pothead of the group and was totally fine with just my weed. In fact, before I got deep into coke, I never even thought of coke when I had weed. It was around me 24/7, but it was no big deal to me at the time. They'd lay out three huge gaggers for us, and I'd often leave mine sitting there. Before moving in with these two, I had done coke other times, so it wasn't my first time around the stuff. The only interesting experience that came out of living in that house with those two was, I was the only one not stupid skinny and unhealthy looking. I'd take breaks when I could, and I'd smoke pot. These guys were uppers only, and they very rarely ate regularly. Some would say I wasn't as addicted as them, but I beg to differ. When I left the shallow end for the deep end, coke was all I thought of. Pot became nothing to me, and I even frowned on it because it could only bring me down, when I was enjoying being up all the time.

If I'm honest with myself, I don't blame weed for my becoming addicted to cocaine. I blame my own willpower. I don't even blame pot for me eventually trying cocaine. I do not feel it was a gateway drug at all. Had I not already tried pot when I was young, and eventually came across friends who were doing coke... surprise... I would have tried it. Peer pressure is worse than most anything when it comes to first time drug use. Heck, you don't even need to feel pressure from friends. You can pressure yourself into it, just so you can fit in. Now that I'm older, I can give a sh!t if someone thinks less of me if I don't partake in what they're doing. If a drug is going to be the one thing that determines if I'm cool enough to be around them... eff them.

Cocaine is nothing to me now, and I luckily didn't need to enroll into any programs. Alcohol is a whole other story for me. I still occasionally drink, but I place limits on myself. I won't drink more than one day in a row, and it was once per week. I say "once was", because I rarely drink now at all. Even with those limits I had placed on myself. Also, I'm a terrible drunk. At age 42, I can finally be honest with myself about that.

Em, I want you to find peace in something more substantial than drugs. I may not know what you're fighting right now, but I can sense a bit of it. I'm by no means a doctor or therapist, but I've been in those shoes before. Happiness and peace only comes when you're fully ready for it. It's a long, jacked up road, but not an impossible drive. I had to remove myself from the friends I once had, but more importantly, I had to get out of my own mindset. I could have easily made new friends after I moved to replace the old ones. Also, don't listen to that crap about having to hit absolute rock bottom before getting better. That's an effing cop-out, and a dangerous message to give someone. If you want to get better and are ready for it, it'll happen. If you're not ready, you'll continue to make excuses or backslide. This is a battle that takes place inside of you. Your own brain will conspire against you. That's when you have to rely on your will and be extra strong. You're a man, and it's an object. That's how I get over any obstacle now. Me against things. I now love myself enough not to let things get over on me. Fuck things! =]

Also, I always hated the recovered person talking to me about addictions. I would get really mad and end up loathing them. I only wish I had fully listened to them more, and realized that they weren't being condescending pricks. It wasn't even me that was mad at them, though. It was the drugs making me think that. My brain and the drugs, teamed up on me to ensure they got what they needed still.

I love you, Em. I want you around me for as long as I'm able to. I hope that's a really long time, man.

[eminutia]

I love you too, there's a lot of people who are totally either ignorant, indifferent or too shy to come out with the honest truth about things. I was once one of those people who stood back and watched as the world passed me by. Getting involved is the first step, and I didn't realize that just because it's familiar, being alone is not the key to happiness. Once I get involved, things become a lot more easier, and more doors open for me. It's not about the drugs anymore, they were just my replacement for the people I thought I didn't have in my life. People are like drugs now for me, I get high off conversations now. It may seem childish, but honestly, I am still a young child inside. There has never been so much wonder inside of me, not the negative kind like "what the **** is going on", more like "What can I do to make what's going on better?"

You've been a big part of my life for the past couple of years, though I may not know it fully yet, you have not once ever insulted a person, contributed a selfish opinion on things, and you always consider others before yourself. That's one similarity that stands out between us, and I think that's why we get along so well.

[PeeKnuckle]

Thanks, Em. Not so sure I'm deserving of all that praise, but I do like to treat others as I'd like them to treat me. Imagine our world if most everyone thought that way.

One other thing. Don't let that child inside of you ever die. I refuse to let mine go and I'm better for it. People can tell me I'm immature all day and I take it as praise. I never want to be serious all the time. That's no kind of life for me.

"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously." — Hunter S. Thompson

[eminutia]

You're welcome. We're all deserving of love and praise. We've all done something worthy of it.